Let the record show this discussion exists because of me, which in no way affects my unhealthy level of megalomania.
Really enjoyed the conversation and a few ideas jumped out at me.
1) There's a real tension right now between the "DIY approach" to "brand building" and the declining but still significant power of "traditional" media. For humor writers, Medium's been cooked for a while, and the two major outlets to pitch, as you mentioned, are McSweeney's and Shouts & Murmurs. Those are very difficult nuts to crack, and if you can't get published there then where else can you go?
On the other hand, if you start your own thing -- as we all did -- how do you build it? How do you get people to take a chance on you? Especially if you don't have some name recognition or some kind of stamp of approval already? Then, of course, the already "famous" people always pivot to the DIY platforms and suck up all the oxygen. It's just a never-ending cycle of trying to keep pace and always trailing the pack.
I don't say any of that to be a bummer, but just to acknowledge the challenge. Luckily for us, we got to Substack in 2022 when it wasn't so crowded and we were able to establish a beachhead. If I showed up today like I did in May 2022, I can't imagine I'd be able to build things out the way I have. There's too many writers on this platform now, and there's only so much attention to go around.
2) The MFA confers one big advantage that I think is overlooked: the ability to teach writing classes at a college. I love to teach -- it's why I write -- and in my fantasy future I would teach writing at a local university and write novels. But, many of my Chicago-based, MFA-holding friends have indicated I'd probably need an MFA, even a "low-residency" degree, to secure such a gig. It's possible I may end up with THREE useless Master's Degrees during my life. Here's hoping.
For people who can't spend the money or time getting a fancy MFA degree, I really credit the Substack newsletters I've followed for teaching me crucial craft concepts. George Saunders and Chuck Palahniuk post excellent craft lessons (I don't subscribe to either anymore due to time constraints) and I recently subbed to Junot Diaz and have enjoyed his highly structured lessons. You definitely can create an MFA-lite experience here on Substack, which is incredibly valuable.
3) The discussion on satire is great. Like everything I "know" about writing, the more I learn, and the more I study, the less I understand. I'm not sure I can define satire any better now than when I started writing full-time six years ago. But, I know it when I see it.
1) It's possible my timing didn't completely suck with regard to joining Substack. Unlike my timing on Twitter, Instagram, Wattpad, self-publishing, choosing a viable career path. But I do feel it becoming very crowded with "new" writers in here, all looking to strike it big/rich like whatever influential talking head convinced them was possible. And the oxygen-sucking famous people with enormous followings, and the how-to "succeed" guides. Also seeing A LOT more people jumping on the "I guess I'll be a gatekeeper now" bandwagon. It's frustrating, because everyone that's doing that is doing it because they're sick of gatekeepers overlooking them and their favorite writers. They believe they're saving the day, but they're really just creating another space that only a few select people can get into. I’ll admit to being tempted by a few of them. Since they’re all promising growth and visibility and since the old method of showing up, engaging positively with readers and writers, and writing damn good stuff isn't really moving the needle for me anymore. BUT I KNOW the more time I spend trying to "grow" my readership the less time I spend writing for them. So ¯\(°_o)/¯ ¯\(°_o)/¯ ¯\(°_o)/¯ definition of insanity?
2) I get the teaching angle. Excellent point. Thing is, thanks to the internet, everyone fancies themselves a teacher now. Whether they have the credentials or not. These are the not-famous people who can make money as "writers." Not because they're actually "writing" but because they're telling other people how to write. Your future sounds nice, though. In mine, I’m (actually) writing books and am sought after to speak at conferences, book festivals, to sit on panels and guest on podcasts and teach masterclasses and all that noise. The only difference between me and (some of) the people that are securing those gigs now is trad-publishing credibility and/or a fancy degree in professional panel sitting. And I’ll face the facts that (over)confidence probably helps. I don’t need to win everything. I’d be happy to conquer a chunk of middle ground.
And yes, you can easily Frankenstein a quality craft education studying writers you admire who have blazed trails. That’s just being resourceful.
3) I know it when I see it, but I’m still working on seeing it when I write it. 😂
Thanks for being such an attentive listener. And the only reason you had anything to do with this interview happening is because I ignored my don’t-talk-to-strangers-on-the-internet voice one dark day on Agents & Books. And don’t you forget it. 🦄💪🏻🔨
Fab interview. I love hearing from authors. With Dennard (and Amran) I was intimidated by their talent. But hearing them speak and that they have their own insecurities makes them approachable not to mention the education they offer.
Regarding an MFA, check out Writing in the Dark with Jeannine Oulette. Her exercises are MFA quality.
Also, I would love to be beta readers with you if you have a piece you want to submit to McSweeneys. I'm working on one. It's a departure from my usual style but after reading what they publish I diverted.
Thanks for listening! Yes, self-doubt and its many cousins are a universal threat to writers. No one is immune! Not even cool AF guys like Dennard and Amran.
Oooh. Thanks for the tip on Jeannine Ouelette. I've really enjoyed being back in class this summer. I do well with a bit of structure around my writing practice. Unfortunately, I'm not very good at creating that structure myself - I'm a mentee in need of a mentor, always.
I need to READ more of McSweeney's humor stuff to get a feel for their style. Sounds like you're ahead of me on that front which is awesome. Julie Vick (Humor Me) has had work published there. She might be a good tester for your current piece and will allow me time to play catch up on writing my own. 🙂 SO MUCH TO DO AND WRITE!
Let the record show this discussion exists because of me, which in no way affects my unhealthy level of megalomania.
Really enjoyed the conversation and a few ideas jumped out at me.
1) There's a real tension right now between the "DIY approach" to "brand building" and the declining but still significant power of "traditional" media. For humor writers, Medium's been cooked for a while, and the two major outlets to pitch, as you mentioned, are McSweeney's and Shouts & Murmurs. Those are very difficult nuts to crack, and if you can't get published there then where else can you go?
On the other hand, if you start your own thing -- as we all did -- how do you build it? How do you get people to take a chance on you? Especially if you don't have some name recognition or some kind of stamp of approval already? Then, of course, the already "famous" people always pivot to the DIY platforms and suck up all the oxygen. It's just a never-ending cycle of trying to keep pace and always trailing the pack.
I don't say any of that to be a bummer, but just to acknowledge the challenge. Luckily for us, we got to Substack in 2022 when it wasn't so crowded and we were able to establish a beachhead. If I showed up today like I did in May 2022, I can't imagine I'd be able to build things out the way I have. There's too many writers on this platform now, and there's only so much attention to go around.
2) The MFA confers one big advantage that I think is overlooked: the ability to teach writing classes at a college. I love to teach -- it's why I write -- and in my fantasy future I would teach writing at a local university and write novels. But, many of my Chicago-based, MFA-holding friends have indicated I'd probably need an MFA, even a "low-residency" degree, to secure such a gig. It's possible I may end up with THREE useless Master's Degrees during my life. Here's hoping.
For people who can't spend the money or time getting a fancy MFA degree, I really credit the Substack newsletters I've followed for teaching me crucial craft concepts. George Saunders and Chuck Palahniuk post excellent craft lessons (I don't subscribe to either anymore due to time constraints) and I recently subbed to Junot Diaz and have enjoyed his highly structured lessons. You definitely can create an MFA-lite experience here on Substack, which is incredibly valuable.
3) The discussion on satire is great. Like everything I "know" about writing, the more I learn, and the more I study, the less I understand. I'm not sure I can define satire any better now than when I started writing full-time six years ago. But, I know it when I see it.
1) It's possible my timing didn't completely suck with regard to joining Substack. Unlike my timing on Twitter, Instagram, Wattpad, self-publishing, choosing a viable career path. But I do feel it becoming very crowded with "new" writers in here, all looking to strike it big/rich like whatever influential talking head convinced them was possible. And the oxygen-sucking famous people with enormous followings, and the how-to "succeed" guides. Also seeing A LOT more people jumping on the "I guess I'll be a gatekeeper now" bandwagon. It's frustrating, because everyone that's doing that is doing it because they're sick of gatekeepers overlooking them and their favorite writers. They believe they're saving the day, but they're really just creating another space that only a few select people can get into. I’ll admit to being tempted by a few of them. Since they’re all promising growth and visibility and since the old method of showing up, engaging positively with readers and writers, and writing damn good stuff isn't really moving the needle for me anymore. BUT I KNOW the more time I spend trying to "grow" my readership the less time I spend writing for them. So ¯\(°_o)/¯ ¯\(°_o)/¯ ¯\(°_o)/¯ definition of insanity?
2) I get the teaching angle. Excellent point. Thing is, thanks to the internet, everyone fancies themselves a teacher now. Whether they have the credentials or not. These are the not-famous people who can make money as "writers." Not because they're actually "writing" but because they're telling other people how to write. Your future sounds nice, though. In mine, I’m (actually) writing books and am sought after to speak at conferences, book festivals, to sit on panels and guest on podcasts and teach masterclasses and all that noise. The only difference between me and (some of) the people that are securing those gigs now is trad-publishing credibility and/or a fancy degree in professional panel sitting. And I’ll face the facts that (over)confidence probably helps. I don’t need to win everything. I’d be happy to conquer a chunk of middle ground.
And yes, you can easily Frankenstein a quality craft education studying writers you admire who have blazed trails. That’s just being resourceful.
3) I know it when I see it, but I’m still working on seeing it when I write it. 😂
Thanks for being such an attentive listener. And the only reason you had anything to do with this interview happening is because I ignored my don’t-talk-to-strangers-on-the-internet voice one dark day on Agents & Books. And don’t you forget it. 🦄💪🏻🔨
Rumor has it listening and subscribing cures six out of five incurable ailments. And prevents the rest. Just a suggestion.
Meg, I had a great time! Thanks for having me on.
Ditto and my pleasure and good show and all that closing night cast party jazz! Keep that intro handy. Administer as needed for ego replenishment.
Fab interview. I love hearing from authors. With Dennard (and Amran) I was intimidated by their talent. But hearing them speak and that they have their own insecurities makes them approachable not to mention the education they offer.
Regarding an MFA, check out Writing in the Dark with Jeannine Oulette. Her exercises are MFA quality.
Also, I would love to be beta readers with you if you have a piece you want to submit to McSweeneys. I'm working on one. It's a departure from my usual style but after reading what they publish I diverted.
Thanks for listening! Yes, self-doubt and its many cousins are a universal threat to writers. No one is immune! Not even cool AF guys like Dennard and Amran.
Oooh. Thanks for the tip on Jeannine Ouelette. I've really enjoyed being back in class this summer. I do well with a bit of structure around my writing practice. Unfortunately, I'm not very good at creating that structure myself - I'm a mentee in need of a mentor, always.
I need to READ more of McSweeney's humor stuff to get a feel for their style. Sounds like you're ahead of me on that front which is awesome. Julie Vick (Humor Me) has had work published there. She might be a good tester for your current piece and will allow me time to play catch up on writing my own. 🙂 SO MUCH TO DO AND WRITE!